: Well, well, well. MediaTakeOut.com has learned that scientists have now officially gave up on the notion that Cleopatra was European. But they're not ready yet to say that she was African yet.
A scientist named Sally Ann Ashton created a 3-D image of what she believe Cleopatra looked like. And, according to Ashton, Cleopatra was of "mixed heritage." Here's how it's being reported:
Pieced together from images on ancient artifacts, including a ring dating from Cleopatra's reign 2,000 years ago, it is the culmination of more than a year of painstaking research.Well ... at least she got it HALF RIGHT!!!!The result is a beautiful young woman of mixed ethnicity - very different to the porcelain-skinned Westernised version portrayed by Elizabeth Taylor in the 1961 movie Cleopatra.
Dr Ashton, of Cambridge University, said the images, to be broadcast as part of a Five documentary on Cleopatra, reflect the monarch's Greek heritage as well as her Egyptian upbringing.
'She probably wasn't just completely European. You've got to remember that her family had actually lived in Egypt for 300 years by the time she came to power.'
Well I had the pleasure of going to Eygpt myself last summer and one of the places we went was the Eygptian Museum. I was just dumbstruck by all the Black statues and reliefs that were representations of the Pharoahs. Nefertiti, Hepstusut (sp?), Cleopatra, Aiye, and Kiya were ALL Queens and all were BLACK WOMEN! They look just like us (sisters) and were regal, strong featured but delicate (in dress and ornamants). It was so OBVIOUS these reliefs had at one time been black people that I OVERHEARD SEVERAL Eygptian people (who were touring the museum with us) make comments such as: "Look. I told you they (Pharoah) were black". I asked one Eygptian curator if the ancient Eygptians were indeed black. He was soooo honest and simply asked me what continent I was in right now. I said africa, he said well there is your answer! Lol.
I learned about this in my African-American experience class. I don't know why anyone would think she wasn't black, Egypt is in Africa right??? So technically Egyptians would be African right??? According to my professor Dr. Akbar the reason why scientist have always tried to make it seem like Egyptians were Europeans is because the Egyptians were such an advances and intelligent nations and they don't wanna give credit for there creations and technological developments to black people. He also says that the Europeans are really salty because they cant figure our how they were able to construct the great pyramids (don't listen to everything they try and tell you on da Discovery and History channel.)
These Scientist think they know every thing man ***. But i guess if it wasn't for them we wouldn't know anything cause let me tell you how us black people don't go high and we don't go low, we don't be going deep under water and in these caves and ting, so i give them props for that cause other wise we wouldn't know $hit they always wan be the first to discover something.
Yes, I have known that for years. Of course their not going to say she is from African Orgin. I feel that alot of African Americans are mixed with something, but it's a shame half of us don't know with what! There are alot of people from the past that are of African orgin that they haven't been shared in the history books till now.
More recently African American history is being studied and taught. So, so late of course.
Prchic is correct Cleopatra was not black and anyone who would question this info, i'm not going to argue just do a seach on old Cleo and her dynasty. She was infact Greecian and her father conquered Egypt at its weakest point and claimed the empire for the Greeks.
On another note, if you would do a search on Cleopatra's background you wouldn't want her to be black.
1. BLACK is a socially constructed racial classification, so is WHITE. No such thing is a WHITE person nor a BLACK person. The EUROPEANS decided to call Africans BLACK and themselves WHITE.
2. People who originated from Africa are AFRICAN
3. Africans vary in terms of shade of skin, and facial feature bone structure, due to the SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE, this was the slave trade BEFORE the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, in which Africans enslaved other Africans.
4. I have TWO words for anyone who thinks Egypt is not an African country...PLATE TECTONICS
@ZARTIA- Yes her dad was Greecian but he was DARK and had curly hair. By the way her family history has been speculated for years. HOWEVER be that as it may, Nefertiti, Hetspetsut, Aye, and Kiya are Africans they WERE NOT of EUROPEAN descent. EUROPEANS were still living in caves during ancient Eygptian civilization.
@ReddTony- You're correct. They were so livid that a BLACK man could be so advanced and powerful that in their contempt they *** off the wide nose of the Sphinx. Even today you can clearly see the African facial features of the Sphinx.
Yeah, people u need to study up on your geography a little more. A person of Greek heritage has the skin tone closest to Caucasian, also people arising from egyptian heritage have a very olive skin tone, looks similar to italian. Although Egyptian peoples hair tends to be very coarse similar to that of African Americans due to the intense heat in Egypt, which is probably where the braided hair comes into play in the 3D image.
Spanishgurl
If you knew your history, you would know that the Arabs did not conquer north Africa until the 6th century Common Era. Before that, the continent was Black majority. There was active trade in ancient Africa with India, China, Rome, Greece et al, but still the inhabitants were ethincally Black African
Please learn some history before you come up here talking reckless, because you will meet a chick like me who knows African history
prchicand Spanishgurl...you guys need to read Arican Egyptian Civilization, by Chiek AnteDiop...My husband and I visited Egypt last year, and I've seen the statues of Cleopatra, Ramses, the Sphinx, and seen the heiroglyphics with my own eyes where the statues have not had their features chiseled off...and let me tell all of the readers on MTO those great people were black! Egypt is in Africa! And yes Cleopatra did have relations with Mark Anthony which produced a son named, Jesus Justus, and obviously he was mixed...When I visited the area there were plenty of modern-day eyptians there that came up to my husband and I and respectfully called us Nubians and said "welcome home"...was a very wonderful feeling. Also, the correct name of Egypt is called Khemet. Egypt is a greek word.
@SpanishGurl- Actually the NATIVE Egyptians ARE INDEED BLACK peoples. Remember the ARABS came LAST to Egypt once they migrated from areas located in and around the middle eastern Gulf. Please re-read this history because everybody and their mama know the Egyptian people you see today (ARABS) were the last people to come into Egypt.
Ustech123
The Egyptians of today are NOT the Egyptians of the ancients times. The ones who claim to be the orginial ones still live in Egypt and look like who? African-Americas with medium and dark skin tones and corse hair. The modern Egyptians are the descendants of Arab conquerers from the 6th century.
GuessJeans Flag post @SpanishGurl- Actually the NATIVE Egyptians ARE INDEED BLACK peoples. Remember the ARABS came LAST to Egypt once they migrated from areas located in and around the middle eastern Gulf. Please re-read this history because everybody and their mama know the Egyptian people you see today (ARABS) were the last people to come into Egypt.
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THANK YOU !! I was just about to write the same thing. People like SpanishGurl make me laugh because they're quick to tell Black people that the current Egyptians IN POWER and MAINLY SHOWN in the media are not of Black African descendant. Well OK ! Problem is, people like SpanishGurl or the media at large,are not as quick to tell these Egyptians of Arab descent, that THEY HAVE NO CLAIM ON ANCIENT BLACK EGYPTIAN ACCOMPLISHMENTS OR HISTORY ( ie. The Great Pyramids). Egyptians of Arab descent taking credit for the great works of Ancient Black Egyptians, is like the white Spanish Conquistadors taking credit for Aztec and Mayan history in South America.....ABSURD !!
MISSCMD
OK SO WHY IS HER EYEBROWS DONE, IM SURE THEY DIDNT DO THAT BACK IN HER TIME.
Eyebrow threading has been around for centuries.
Tarita
1. BLACK is a socially constructed racial classification, so is WHITE. No such thing is a WHITE person nor a BLACK person. The EUROPEANS decided to call Africans BLACK and themselves WHITE.
2. People who originated from Africa are AFRICAN
3. Africans vary in terms of shade of skin, and facial feature bone structure, due to the SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE, this was the slave trade BEFORE the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, in which Africans enslaved other Africans.
4. I have TWO words for anyone who thinks Egypt is not an African country...PLATE TECTONICS --------------- ***! Where have you been!? Excellent post! ``````````````````````````````````````````````` @ Kishakut When I visited the area there were plenty of modern-day eyptians there that came up to my husband and I and respectfully called us Nubians and said "welcome home"...was a very wonderful feeling. ====================
Just reading that touched my heart and my soul so I know hearing it first hand must have been exhilarating to you.
Man they gon put this rubbish in history books and get errbody confused...
*** near everything origined in Egypt, when mainstream religion started being imposed on civilization, some words in the Bible such as "Amen", came from "Amen Ra" the Sun God of Egypt and the Ancient Egyptian worshipped this God on Sundays...A lot of stuff in the Bible originated in Eqypt...Israel is beleived to be named after the three Egyptian Gods Isis, Ra, and El....
@ UPSOUTHBOY
Race is ECONOMICS...the One Drop Rule is a law that was put in place for SLAVERY, in which the offspring of Europeans and Africans could not be considered U.S. citizens, because the Europeans wanted to Opress ANYONE with African ancestry, whether it was 50%, %25(me) or 1/64 of a drop.
OBAMA is mixed both AFRICAN 50% and EUROPEAN 50% Not you nor anyone else can deny that. Jim Crow days are OVER. The U.S. has had the most racist political system more so than any other developed country.
Once again people who know nothing about history and are as dumb as door knobs.
Sit back and take notes fools:
Cleopatra was one of Alexander the Great's generals daughters. She came from the Greek Ptolomy dynasty. Alexander the Great conquered Egypt and much of that part of the world at that time and divided up his kingdom with his generals.
Cleopatra was Greek and it is possible that she could have been mixed with Egyptian. However there is no historical proof that she had any Egyptian in her.
The historian *** said that Cleopatra had alabaster skin and red hair and never referred to her as being beautiful. That was just some myth assigned to her through history to give the Cleopatra and Mark Anthony story a romantic slant.
Cleopatra was not 'black' she was Greek and possibly had some Egyptian in her. However, I would like you morons to know that Egyptians are not considered 'black' they are considered 'caucasian'. However, I disagree with that I do believe they are from the Hamitic groups of people.
Brush up on your history and stop always commenting like uneducated fools!
@Malletdiva02- You're so right. It's only when we learn and know who we are that we can begin to love ourselves. Unfortunately, this is the problem with many blacks today. Now some of us are WISHING and trying to make ourselves appear more Caucasian in order to be accepted as if something was wrong with curly hair and dark skin. It is only once we learn our history, know ourselves, and reconnect with our past, that we can be able to be proud of our rich African Heritage and appreciate and embrace our blackness with pride and respect.
It's so unfortunate that some of our youth are so brain-dead and brainwashed.
I learned about this in my African-American experience class. I don't know why anyone would think she wasn't black, Egypt is in Africa right??? So technically Egyptians would be African right??? According to my professor Dr. Akbar the reason why scientist have always tried to make it seem like Egyptians were Europeans is because the Egyptians were such an advances and intelligent nations and they don't wanna give credit for there creations and technological developments to black people. He also says that the Europeans are really salty because they cant figure our how they were able to construct the great pyramids (don't listen to everything they try and tell you on da Discovery and History channel.)
Guess Jeans, you're welcome...and you know what was real cool...when I visited Aswan, (which means land of the dark/burnt faces) the people there look exactly like the average beautiful african-americans here, with gorgeous black silky hair...beautiful people, and they identify themselves as Nubians...
@ GuessJeans It's so unfortunate that some of our youth are so brain-dead and brainwashed. ================================ And that is exactly how Caucasians would like to keep it. They want us to believe that all of us came here on slave ships and try to make us feel as if they did us a favor because if they didn't "rescue" us, we would still be living in grass huts, naked with flies swarming around us. They will not tell you that many of us are the descendants of Moors. They will not tell you that words like “Black” and “White” and “Colored” refer to status or a cast system and have nothing to do with the shade of your skin. If you grow up believing that you came from nothing, you will more than likely continue to believe you are nothing and will continue to be nothing.
Thanks CUTENKINKY! Africans in America have undergone many identifications which is evidenced by the fact that in America, there has been a constant struggle for equality...African, Negro, Black, Colored, African-American, I think African-American is more appropiate in my opinion.
@ GuessJeans, who decided to call Africans "dark" people? As opposed to Europeans being called "light" people? Really think about that...what is "dark" associated with? and "light" associated with? When you call Africans "dark" what are you really saying? Food for thought:)
GuessJeans I only answered a question with regards to Cleopatra not Neferterri and the others you spoke of look and Neferterri's statue everyone knows she was black.
Cleopatra was a white incestuous *** fiend who used what was between her legs to try and get what she wanted until that method didn't work anymore and then she comitted suicide cause she couldn't handle that her lies and deciet was catching up with her so she outed herself by snakes venom so the story goes.
She is a white woman as a matter of fact look up her image on coins and you will see that she was a ugly white women at that. She was actually Macedonian to be correct. They are not black people just because she and her family were associated with the word Egypt does not make them Egyptian or Black or African if you wil.
The Egyptians were evil people and one of the four winds to inflict the Israelites GODS favored people. The Egyptians had something the Greecians wanted which is why they conquered egypt in egypts weakend state "they got big headed" and took there eyes off the prize and this is how the greecians and macedonians were able to sneak in and claim history in egypt.
@CuteKinky...yes, it was a wonderful feeling...and what was also pretty interesting is that the modern-day egyptians love african-american culture, the music, our hairstyles, (my husband and I were rocking braided up locks), etc. i recommend anyone that can make the trip to visit khemet/egypt and definitely take your children so they can have a true understanding of their heritage and know that they come from greatness...
Finally something worth commenting on........ Littlemissperfect I also heard she was white washed with red hair and not considered pretty. In that era queen Tiye was the epitome of what you considered beauty. What's funny is the Eygptians learned from the Nubians. My race has been to hell and back and we still standing! And dont say the Jews cause we are the Original Jews. That happen within in a period of time. The "new" Jews are no longer being persecuted. We are still in a holocaust!!!!! You celebrate genetic flaws(blue, grey, eyes) but yet you call my natural beauty ugly???
I was always raised to believe that Cleopatra was black as well, but now I don't think she was. To touch on what "Prchic" already said, upthread, Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, which would made her Hellenic. And as usual, this headline is misleading. Since when does one scientist's opinion equal the opinion of "all scientists"?
AFTER READING SO MANY OF THESE COMMENTS...I AM ABSOLUTELY PROUD OF ALL YOU YOUNG AND MY AGE(i'm not old), AND HOW MANY WILL NOT HAVE NOT AND NEVER WILL FALL FOR THE BANANA IN THE TAILPIPE. I'VE ALSO LEARNED SOME THINGS BY READING THESE COMMENTS....I LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT!.....IT'S ALMOST LIKE WHAT MY FAMILY DOES WHEN WE GET TOGETHER, TALK ABOUT HISTORY, OUR HISTORY AND SO ON, AND AS MOST OF YOU KNOW DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE/WATCH ON HISTORY OR DISCOVERY CHANNEL......LIKE IT'S STILL MANY SCIENTIST WHO REFUSE TO ADMIT THAT THE GARDEN OF EDEN WAS TRACED BACK TO ETHIOPIA.....ARE ANY OF YOU GUYS FAMILIAR WITH JOHN HENRIK CLARK, IF NOT YOU MISSIN OUT ON SOME SERIOUS AZZ AFRICAN AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY.
Littlemissperfect Flag post ...... However, I would like you morons to know that Egyptians are not considered 'black' they are considered 'caucasian'.
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Ummmmm by who....some European historians or anthropologists with an agenda ? SORRY in the 21th Century many of us aren't willing to except the lies and misinformation of the Eurocentric scholars, who want to promote their ridiculous "superior white race" agenda. Humans are ONE RACE and that ONE RACE began on this planet in the form of Black people.All the subsequent various ethnicities were birthed by us.I for one am not concerned about a silly eurocentric classification, devised by a German lunatic (Johann Friedrich Blumenbach ) in the 1800's,which was meant to promote Kracker superiority.
There are no words that can express the magnitude of the intelligence of John henrik Clark.
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The truth ! A lot of the confused whites and Negroes need to sit down and listen to John Henrik Clark, Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan ( a pure Black Ethiopian JEW ), and Dr. Ivan Van Sertima. Many of their lectures or interviews are available on youtube FOR FREE.
@ I_WILL_LEARN_YOU
I've wondered the same, but I'm having a hard time believing Nazis and Western Coloners were originally Africans. When I look at what's happening in Dafur, I think this treatment of humans is being emulated, and so I have difficulty believing that the destruction of human life arose out of Africa.
.....the white man only portrayed people of egyptian heritage to be white bcuz 1. it sells an 2. they cant imagine seeing black ppl in so much power.
if they wanna say thats cleopatra then she looks mixed with indian and black., she has the indian lips but eyes of a black person.. all in all she looks straight ethiopian.
lol @ WessideEviscer8r i agree with u, it could be any cleopatra, the way ppl get information mixed up these days is ridiculous.
Wow, everytime I come on here someone always manges to make be embarassed I am african american, and MOMMA HIPS you are the recipient of the convenant award this vist. You call me ignorant because I don't share the same point of view as you and you typed it all in caps too.
I'm not going to sweat it though because you want to claim that status that the white man put in your head as glamorous. Bottom line is you do your reasearch and i'll do mine and not take it personal that you typed me ignorant on the internet. I just have on word for you though
Ptolemy Dynast look it up.
I agree that Egyptians should not be categorized as 'white' however that is what they consider themselves as well. One of the reasons is that Egyptians are mixed with Arab and whatever else.
Cleopatra was not a black woman like queen Neferteri and people really need to stop trying to grasp for straws and make it seem that any and everything on the continent of Africa is black.
To the idiot who said Jesus was black please grab a bible and look up his lineage it goes back to Noah's son Shem who Semetic people come from. Noah's son Ham is where blacks and African people descend. There are many Jewish people who have wooly hair but that doesn't make them black.
I am not trying in anyway to diminish the many contributions that blacks have made to history but I really wish people would stick to facts and not try to slant history because they have a need to want to feel important/validated.
There is no reason for that blacks have made their mark but don't embellish history that's just stupid and unnecessary!
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK AND THE CITY OF EGYPT ALEXANDRIA TOO PERIOD get educTED loads of professors did tell me dat so what u gonna say first egyptinas aint black SECOND IKNOW MANY EGYPTIAN PEOPLE TALKING GREEK CLEOPATRA CAME FROM GREECE AND EGYPTIAN TOTALLY DONT LOOK BLACK BUT MORE ARABIAN PEACE IM OUT AND PROUD BEEING GREEK and if you are edicated you know boutj the library that got burned in Alexandria the GREEK CITY
malletdiva, GuessJeans, thanks for your posts. For more information, if you wanna know more about Ancient Egypt and the greatest civilization on this Earth, please read "Negro Nations and Culture". It's from the most eminent black scholar, scientist, historian who whith scientific facts has proven that indeed Ancient Egyptians were black. If you can't get that book, try this one: The African Origin of Civilization, Myth or Reality.
One Love!
It is amazing that white folks have tried and continue to try to make the ancient egyptians non Afrikans, in this way they won't have to credit Afrikan peoeple for being the mothers and fathers of civilization, and won't have to give Afrikan credit for being the cradle of civilzation.
but no matter how hard to try, they continue to fail because the more history is illuminated and re-examined, the more we discover that the emperor has never had any clothes on
@@@@ daisydooks @@@@ DAISYDOOK
could you please please please please post on here were did you get this information from. I am in tears after reading the articles that you posted. we are from such greatness but it has been diminished with negativity. I have copied and paste the articles that you written to myself so I can read over and over again. !!!!!!!! DAISYDOOKS IF YOU DONT DO ANYTHING ELSE TODAY PLEASE GET THIS INFORMATION TO ME!!!!!
MY EMAIL IS dinyalnew@yahoo.com or put the information on this site.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU GUYS FOR THIS WONDERFUL INFROMATION.
Cleopatra VII Philopator (in Greek, Κλεοπάτρα Φιλοπάτωρ; January 69 BC – 30 BC) was a Hellenistic ruler of Egypt, originally sharing power with her father Ptolemy XII and later with her brothers/husbands Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV; eventually gaining sole rule of Egypt. As Pharaoh, she consumated a liaison with Gaius Julius Caesar that solidified her grip on the throne. After Caesar's assassination, she aligned with Mark Antony, with whom she produced a pair of twins and a son. In all, Cleopatra had four children, a first born son by Caesar (Ptolemy Caesar nicknamed Caesarion) and three by Mark Antony (the pair of twins, Cleopatra Selene II and Alexander Helios, and last a son Ptolemy ***). Her successive unions with her brothers produced no children. Her reign marks the end of the Hellenistic Era and the beginning of the Roman Era in the eastern Mediterranean. She was the last Pharaoh of Ancient Egypt. Her son by Julius Caesar, Caesarion, co-ruled in name with his mother only a very few years before Octavian, later on renamed Caesar Augustus, had him executed, most probably by strangulation, which in Antiquity was the execution method reserved for infants and pre-pubescents, thus adding humiliation to his execution.
Though she bore the ancient Egyptian title Pharaoh, her main language was Greek; for several centuries preceding her rule, Egyptian kings had been of Macedonian (i.e. Hellenistic) origin rather than Egyptian origin. The establishment of a Greek-speaking aristocracy in Egypt had come with Alexander the Great nearly 300 years before. Cleopatra is reputed to have been the first member of her family in their 300-year reign in Egypt to have learned the Egyptian language. Cleopatra adopted common Egyptian beliefs and deities. Her patron goddess was Isis, and thus during her reign it was believed that she was the re-incarnation and embodiment of the goddess of wisdom.
After Antony and Cleopatra were defeated at Actium by their rival and Caesar's legal heir, Gaius Julius Caesar Octavian (who later became the first Roman Emperor, Augustus), Cleopatra committed suicide, the traditional date being 12 August 30 BC,[1] allegedly by means of an asp bite. To this day she remains popular in Western culture. Her legacy survives in numerous works of art and the many dramatizations of her story in literature (e.g. Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra and George Bernard Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra), film, and television. (e.g. Elizabeth Taylor's depiction in Cleopatra, and the BBC–HBO co-production Rome).
In most depictions, Cleopatra is put forward as a great beauty and her successive conquests of the world's most powerful men is taken to be proof of her aesthetic and sexual appeal. In his Pensées, philosopher Blaise Pascal contends that Cleopatra's classically beautiful profile changed world history: "Cleopatra's nose, had it been ***, the whole face of the world would have been changed." [2]
Plutarch's description of her in his biography Life of Antony is, however, rather different. Writes Plutarch, "For her beauty, as we are told, was in itself not altogether incomparable, nor such as to strike those who saw her". According to Plutarch, what ultimately made Cleopatra attractive was her wit, charm and "sweetness in the tones of her voice"[2].
@ZARTAI...YEA, I'M FIMILIAR WITH PTOLEMY DYNASTY, AND YOU NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH THAT GOES BEFORE THAT, I MEAN BACK TO WHERE GREEK SCHOLARS WERE SENT TO AFRICA TO BE TAUGHT BY THEIR SCHOLARS, THEN YEARS LATER WENT BACK AND ACCUSED THE AFRICAN SCHOLARS TO HAVE STOLEN THEIR TEACHINGS....LOOK IT UP!!!!
Most Egyptians don't consider themselves black. That's a label black Americans have given them like they do every person of color.
Cleopatra lived in Egypt and there is a racial mixture of European and African in that country. You can see an Egyptian and see European features with brown, olive or white skin.
Whoever researched Cleopatra, I hope they did it the same way the Discovery Channel did with their recreation of Jesus. They looked at pictures of Jewish men around his time. They were ***, dark, curly haired men.
@ AFricanQt, I Will Learn You, Daisydukes, Tarika and others for the wonderful wealth of information you're sharing on MTO. WOW this is a WONDERFUL story because it opens the forum for intellectual and stimulating conversation. Whoever thought a site that promotes "the Swirl" , "who got big behinds", and "whose on the DL" could allow intriguing dialogue such as the one we're having today LOL...
@ ZARTIA- Yes you are correct about that, however she was not 100% Caucausain. I believe her mom was an African Egyptian but I'm not quite sure. The details of her family history remain a mystery. We can only speculate whether she was white or black. She could have indeed been mixed with white and black. But I won't go so far as to say she was a pure blonde, blue eyed Caucasian woman. This we can say with 100 %accuracy is incorrect.
focus,
Black white is a construct created by europeans, so if the brainwashed mis-segenated egyptians don't consider themselves "black" doesn't mean they are not of the Afrikan phenotype.
some Indians in india may not consider themselves "black", but they are of the Afrikan phenotype, they are Afrocoid
For those interested please chek out not only Diop's books, but Martin Bernel's books as well. he wrote "black athena".
Also check out "Black spark white fire" by Richard POe.
@Chillens- Black people are already significant who are you to question history anyway. Were you there? Just remember that this present society is NOT how it was 1000-2500 years ago. During that time, Black peoples reached the pinnicle of civilization (arts, language, military, etc). Of course, the whites were the last peoples as well as the last to get acquianted with civilization so it's only fair that in these modern times, whites have been at the top. History often recycles itself and those at the top never remain there forever (African empires, Asians empire, Babylonian empires, etc,). Right now you guys are the leaders of the modernized world but it won't be like that forever.
Cleopatra Selene II (Greek:η Κλεοπάτρα Σελήνη, 25 December 40 BC-6), also known as Cleopatra VIII of Egypt or Cleopatra VIII was a Ptolemaic Princess and was the only daughter to Greek Ptolemaic queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Roman triumvir Mark Antony. She was the fraternal twin of Ptolemaic prince Alexander Helios. Her second name in ancient Greek means "moon", being the counterpart of her twin brother‘s second name Helios, meaning "sun". She was of Greek and Roman heritage. Cleopatra was born, raised and educated in Alexandria, Egypt. In late 34 BC, during the Donations of Alexandria, she was made ruler of Cyrenaica and Libya.
Her parents were defeated by Octavian (future Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus), during a naval battle at Actium, Greece in 31 BC. In 30 BC, her parents committed suicide as Octavian and his army invaded Egypt. Octavian took Cleopatra and her brothers from Egypt to Italy. Octavian celebrated his military triumph in Rome by parading the three orphans in heavy golden chains in the streets. The chains were so heavy that they couldn’t walk. Octavian gave the three siblings to Octavia Minor to be raised in her household in Rome. Octavia Minor became their guardian; she was Octavian's second eldest sister and their father's former wife.
Between 26 BC-20 BC, Augustus arranged for Cleopatra to marry African King Juba II of Numidia in Rome. As a wedding present the emperor gave her a huge dowry and appointed her Queen of Numidia. In return, Cleopatra became an ally to Rome. By then her brothers, Alexander Helios and Ptolemy *** had died, probably from illness or through murder. When Cleopatra married Juba, she was the only surviving member of the Ptolemaic dynasty.
Although some websites indicate that Juba and Cleopatra returned to Numidia but did not rule there for long given that the local Numidians disapproved of Juba becoming too Romanized, this is actually a myth. According the the historian Duane W. Roller, the couple were sent to Mauretania where they renamed their new capital Caesaria (modern Cherchell, Algeria), in honor of the Emperor.
Cleopatra is said to have exercised great influence on policies that Juba created. Through her influence, the Mauretanian Kingdom flourished. Mauretania exported and traded well throughout the Mediterranean. The construction and sculptural projects at Caesaria and at another city Volubilis, were built and display a rich mixture of Ancient Egyptian, Greek and Roman architectural styles. The children of Cleopatra and Juba were Cleopatra of Mauretania a possible daughter, Ptolemy of Mauretania (1 BC-40) and Drusilla of Mauretania (born 5). Queen of Syria, Zenobia of Palmyra, is descended from Cleopatra, through her granddaughter Drusilla of Mauretania, the only child of Ptolemy of Mauretania.
Unfortunately, there are no specific surviving written sources on the life of Cleopatra. Surviving coins and monuments suggest that Cleopatra inherited the iron will and perseverance of the Ptolemaic women. Her various titles on surviving coinage are in Greek: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΑ ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑ or ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣ ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑ, which means Queen Cleopatra. These titles were also used on coinage by her late mother. Another title she used on coinage was CΕΛΕ***Ε or Selene. Cleopatra seemed to have been religious, patriotic of her Egyptian Greek heritage, though she ignored her Roman heritage. She wanted to retain and continue the Ptolemaic Legacy.
Cle⋅o⋅pa⋅tra    /ˌkliəˈpætrə, -ˈpɑ-, -ˈpeɪ-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [klee-uh-pa-truh, -pah-, -pey-] Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. 69–30 b.c., queen of Egypt 51–49, 48–30. 2. a female given name: from Greek words meaning “fame” and “father.”
Momma Hips find someone else to argue your point with i'm done just don't type people ignorant because you come off looking like what you are accusing others of being.
Guess Jeans thank you for your non accusatory post it actually comes off as showing how mature you are. I would go out on a limb and say I can not 100% say she had no black in her, however what I will say to you is her families belief system was incestuous and they belived that in order to keep their family line pure for whatever reason I am can not quote at this time so what I believe to be true is because her family heritage belief system was like this her mother could have very well been her fathers sister.
@chillens,
there has never been a man of any race, creed, or nationality by the name of jesus to every walk the face of the earth.
what we call jesus was created because a minority group of coptic egyptians complied with Ptolomy I Lagi (sorter or savior) to create the image we now call jesus. jesus is modified version of the sun God Osara.
ZARTIA,
the incest associated with Cleopatra doesn't shock me. let's not forget that before the romans, the greeks had been in egypt for hundreds of years, and both groups brought with them their caucasoid ways.
there are tons of accounts by whites historians in antiquity discussing whites having sexual relations with their mothers and animals, so nothing shocking here. look at the modern day european royal family and you'll see this practice is still well and alive. many still marry their cousins.
Herodotos *** this...
@ daughtercreole
a person of European descent born in the West Indies or Latin America of or relating to a language that arises from contact between two other languages and has features of both; "Creole grammars" a person descended from French ancestors in southern United States (especially Louisiana) of or relating to or characteristic of native-born persons of French descent in Louisiana; "Creole cooking" a mother tongue that originates from contact between two languages
Please explain to me how this relates to Cleopatra.
TARITA,
You have contradicted yourself. If race is socially constructed, then Obama like any other person of African decent has been constructed/forced to identify as Black. He is a Black man period because he lives in a society that defines him as Black just like all of us. There is no such a thing as Biracial.
"LOL @ AfricanQt citing Diop...hahahha"
lol I am citing him because I am most familiar with his work( I've read all of his books) and to this date there is no scholar(white) that has come close to undoing what he had said about Ancient Egypt. Do you know why the Europeans blocked his work from being published here in America? His works were nothing *** of ground breaking and brillant. When Europeans used the color of one's skin to enslave my ancestors, when the descendants of those slave masters came again and colonized most of Africa(for some reason, we were not civilied enough), Diop stood up to restore our dignity and our place in History. His life work served to destroy the very foundations of white supremacy. He is my Hero!
JAH LOVE all I am trying to relay is it *** matter if the white people took this image from us or not she did nothing to advance our part in history, and that if she was born of incest which was a practice by those folks in that time if her father was greek then her momma had to be greek especially if they were brother and sister.
What I don't understand is why some posters will demean anyone who depicts her culture or character in an accurate light, its just appauling alls this lady has done is.
1. ADOPT the false idols of the egyptian gods and make them her own
2. Was on a power trip.
3. Had atleast 2 kids or more from her BROTHERS
4. Sleep around to keep her power.
5. Kill herself when the going got rough.
And blacks are trying really hard to hold on to her image and claim it as our own, WHY?
Thats all I wanna know.
Who knows? There have been various rulers and dynasties! Both Rome and Egypt were multicultural regions. We are talking about several different cultures in that region.
Nubian people were the people of color.
So ,While a lot of the Egyptians were people of color., Africa is a continent of various colors, shades, and ethnicities.
We are all mixed in varying degrees. Melanin exist in all of us ! It determines our degree of pigment and ultimately our final skin color. Blacks generally produce more or less of this and as a result have darker pigments in the skin.
The people in that region 's ancestors obviously mixed with people of color through relations.
You have to remember that Cleopatra was a ruler and reigned over her district. Key word...Ruler!... Thus The assumption made by main stream America was that she was European.
At the end of the day, according to my Christian faith in the eyes of God there is neither Jew nor Greek, we are all one in his eyes. We should work toward getting past color/pigmentation. Heaven will consist of many.
@ foucs: True. But, as far as everyone coming from Africa...why would people LEAVE a land where by DIVINE right people were given all they needed to survive in terms of crops, animals, and the sun???...It seems to me that Africa was INVADED by those who didn't have the same blessings, and they LEFT their land in order to survive, and invaded Africa to steal Africa's blessings. Just my opinion.
Sorry if this posted twice..
@ GuessJeans Thanks for the *** out!:)
ZARTIA says Prchic is correct Cleopatra was not black and anyone who would question this info, i'm not going to argue just do a seach on old Cleo and her dynasty. She was infact Greecian and her father conquered Egypt at its weakest point and claimed the empire for the Greeks.
On another note, if you would do a search on Cleopatra's background you wouldn't want her to be black. ***************
Wow that was some good info. Idk I always thought she was a full black woman but now I am starting to wonder.
@Tarita
The evolution of todays Europeans began approx. 150,000 years ago. The savage behavior of the white European developed during their migration and/or explosion from the continent of Africa. Please check out the interview Dr. Ivan Van Sertima gave on the evolution of the "pink African".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEv7sxJ8Iec
@ SCREENSIREN: No contradiction. Obama was born to an African father and a European mother. "Black" is as far as I'm concerned a slur, that has been used to identify people who have African ancestry. Because of racialized oppression, people who have a phenotype that is CLOSELY indentifiable with the original people of Africa, are treated inequal in many parts of the world. This is due to the original formula of becoming a developed nation by causing Africa to become UNDERDEVELOPED. In Obama's case, he has NOT been fully treated like a "black" man in the U.S., it is not common for African-Americans to attend Harvard, nor is it common for African-Americans to be elected President of the Harvard Law Journal, nor is it common for African-Americans to be raised by European grandparents, nor is it common for African-Americans to be ELECTED President of the United States. Obama is not Black. He is African and European. Thank the Lord he acknowledges the mistreatment of his father's people AND the mistreatment of his mother's people.
The social construct of RACE is being replaced by CLASS, because when European-Americans start living in poverty like African-Americans due to this economic depression, race won't matter, the only thing that matters is survivng. This is why Eurpean-Americans voted for Obama too.
My name is Tarita and I approved this message! LOL Just trying to lighten things up a bit:)
COME ON PEOPLE BEFORE THE GREEKS THE ARAB OR EUORPEANS INVADED EGYPT ONE OF THE 57 COUNTRIES IN THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA THE PEOPLE WERE "BLACK".
@ I_WILL ,ANOTHER THEORY WITH THE WHITES ARE THEY TRAVELED OUT OF AFRICA GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE 6 MILE OF ICE IN EUORPE THEIR WHOLE LOOK CHANGED DUE TO THE CLIMATE. I MET DR. IVAN VAN SERTIMA, MY HUSBAND AND I SPENT A FEW HRS WITH HIM ABOUT 15 YRS AGO I HAVE ALL HIS BOOK WHICH HE AUTOGRAPHED FOR ME . I SAW HIM AGAIN YRS LATER HE WAS GETTING VERY OLD AND REALLY COULDN'T HOLD A LONG CONVERSATION , HIS VERY YOUNG WIFE AT THAT TIME DID A LOT OF HIS TALKING . IMHOTEP
@DAISYDOOKS<<<
I SO LOVE WHEN YOU POST ON HERE! KUDOS! PLEASE KEEP IT COMING...REAL TALK!
BTW~ I JOINED THE MUTWA YAHOO GROUP, BUT I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY FORUM/THREADS WERE THE MEMBERS CAN CONVERSE OPENLY ABOUT SUBJECTS SUCH AS THESE... WHEN YOU HAVE TIME, PLEASE *** ME AN E-MAIL OVER THERE, MY SCREEN NAME: MISSDANIBABY.
BUT I DIGRESS...
YOU KNOW, TOPICS LIKE THIS FACINATE ME. ESPECIALLY THE VARIOUS BLOODLINES, TRUE ORIGINS OF CIVILIZATION, AFRICAN TRIBES AND WHAT-NOT. I TOO HAVE READ IN THE PAST THAT CLEOPATRA WAS "NOT" A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN AND WAS UNABLE TO HOLD A CANDLE TO OUR OTHER LOVELY AFRICAN QUEENS SUCH AS NEFERTITI, MAKEDA (QUEEN OF SHEBA), NEFERTARI, AND BEAUTIFUL QUEEN TIYE.
CLEOPATRA VII BELONGED TO THE PTOLEMY DYNASTIES WHICH WERE GREEK IN ORIGIN...BUT DID SHE HAVE BLACK MIXED IN HER? MAYBE. BUT AS DAISYDOOKS STATED ABOVE, THIS CAUCASIAN-MAN LOVING BRAWD REALLY WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH ETHNIC, "DARK" AFRICANS, SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
FURTHERMORE, "ALL FOUR" OF HER CHILDREN WERE SIRED BY WHITE GREEK OR ROMAN MEN, SO THIS CHICK REALLY LIKED NOTHING ABOUT THE PHYSICALITY OF THE ORIGINAL EGYPTIAN OR NEGROE PEOPLES...HER FAMILY ONLY LUSTED AFTER THE OBVIOUS WEALTH, POWER AND ADVANCED CIVILIZATION DISPLAYED IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD. AS A MATTER OF FACT, SHE CONSIDERED HERSELF THE REINCARNATION OF THE EGYPTIAN GODDESS, ISIS (GODDESS OF WISDOM) AND WIFE OF OSIRIS. LMAO! NOW THAT'S IRONY AT IT'S FINEST!
THESE RACIST, WHITE GREEKS ARE ONE OF THE MAIN CONTRIBUTORS OF THE SPREAD OF THE *** EGYPTIAN WORSHIP IN THR GRECO-ROMAN WORLD.
There really isn't any concrete evidence to suggest that she was black. Cleopatra's dynastic line suggests the opposite. Could she have been mixed, yes, but it's unlikely. Zarita, this obsession with her racial background is about laying claim to a legacy. It's like the whole Thomas Jefferson-Sally Hemmings thing. There was this one family who were descendents of Sally's eldest son, Tom Woodsen, and the Woodsen descendents made a huge fuss in the press about how Thomas Jefferson had black children and how they were the black descendents of Thomas Jefferson, even shaming the white Jefferson relatives into inviting them to their family reunion. And when the DNA test came back, it proved that while Thomas Jefferson did father a black son, Tom Woodsen wasn't that child. It was Tom Woodsen's half brother, Eston that was Jefferson's son. And to add even more insult to injury, the Eston Hemmings descendents look completely white. The Woodsens milked that Jefferson angle for what it was worth, book deals, press, tv appearances and all types of ish.
prchic you are an absolute idiot! So she a was Greek ruler in Africa? The Greeks had their own powerful city states you ***! And what do you mean "Black girls don't get happy, she wasn't black"? What the F*#$*** do you think you are? BLACK!!! Check your history Ahole!!!! It amazes me how ignorant dumbasses can't handle real talk. You are no worse than these [EXPLETIVE] trying to rob Africa of the fact that civilization started in Africa not Greece. The pyramids, democracy, Math all that good stuff....we did that. Read a book prchic...dumb ***!
@ Chillens-
All of those white men that you refered to from history are all within modern history. When I speak of ancient history I'm talking anywhere between 50-5000 B.C. I believe you're either trying to be funny or you are so offended by the truth, that you're trying to spin my words around to create senseless fodder. Whatever the reason, WHITES have made HISTORY and done some EXTRODINARY as well as non-extrodinary things. They have made great monuments in history. With that being said, SO HAVE BLACK PEOPLE and we (whites and blacks) CANNOT IGNORE the significance of Africa and African culture as it is the BIRTHPLACE or CRADLE OF ALL CIVILIZATION!!!
I'm in NO way suggesting that Blacks are greater than whites or whites are greater than blacks or blacks and whites evolved from apes nonsense. All I'm saying in AS A PEOPLE- Especially us Black Folk- we HAVE to be aware of the great strides we've made in OUR HISTORY TOO!
Please let's continue to be diplomatic here. I am in no mood to go off. I hope you can understand this.
@ I_WILL_LEARN_YOU: I watched the video. I've seen images of people that are called African Albinos. I personally don't believe Europeans originated from Africa. Does Ivan Van Sertima explain blue or green eyes? I have hazel green eyes. So ice changes our eye color? Not buying that theory. Blue and Green eyes are not of the African phenoytpe. Btw. there are European Albinos, and Asian Albinos too.
Tarita,
You do not understand the Black experience in America. To say Obama is not Black because he attended Harvard or was raised by White grandparents just shows you have a limited view of Black Americans. Are you saying only Biracial Blacks attend Harvard? Are you saying only Biracial Blacks are raised by white grandparents? Not all Black people are treated the same way. Not all Black people experience racism the same way. Being Black just means that you are of African decent and have the POTENTIAL to be a target of white racism. I mean, there are rich Blacks, poor Blacks, educated Blacks, uneducated Blacks. Blacks who were born to 2 Black parent,but raised/adopted by Whites. There are Blacks who are from other countries who are not descended of slaves. I think you get my point by now. And your argument about class is weak. There were a higher percentage of poor whites during slavery and Jim Crow than there is now . Poor whites have always existed in this nation even during the most racist times. Race is indeed an economic issue, and was used as a way to create a nation where most of the wealth went to people defined as white, but it never did away with White poverty. So once again, you need to explain how poor whites were more numerous during slavery and Jim Crow to establish your argument that race is being replaced by class. The reality is that they are intertwined.
Girlsluvgems alls I try to do is help my folks think outside the box, if there is anything I say with regards to any topic, just look it up.
Prove me wrong with knowledge and not insults I would assume that most of us are adults here, but based on the info I found out about cleo I think I will claim Harriet Tubman to my race more so than cleopatra.
Seraphim, what is the legacy that you speak of?
She was obsessed with egyptian idolatry and thouhgt she was a reincarnate of one of teir idols, no doubt she probably thought one of those idols was telling her to keep the memory of egypt alive by any means necessary that is why she seduced her captives with her *** and shared her wisdom with them.
On another note, I am a black woman but why does it seem the some blcak woment think we are always the fantasy of a white mans sexual dreams?
I personally would not want to be remembered for sexing men of another race to save my dynasty.
Oculocutaneous albinism (OCA) is a rare, genetically inherited condition passed on by both parents to their offspring, resulting in a significant reduction in or absence of pigmentation in the hair, skin, and eyes at birth. Individuals with albinism are very fair-skinned and fair-haired, with (most often) blue eyes that can take on tones of purple or red in bright lighting.
But due to such lack of knowledge as to why their "white skinned" off springs came about, African mothers and fathers became more and more fearful and suspicions and began to separate their growing number of "white skinned" off springs away from the "black skinned" (pigmented) population.
Eventually most of the "white skinned" off springs of "African" mothers and fathers formed several groups and began to migrate northward through Egypt to another area of Africa which is now called Europe, seeking a more hospitable living environment and to escape the intensity of the equatorial hot climate of the great river valleys and great lakes region of Central, Eastern and Southern Africa which was then and still is South of what is now called Egypt.
The "albino" group moved up in the mountainous area during the Ice Age or Glaciations period that lasted thousands of years further isolating themselves from their original parent population in Africa. And by being in such isolated living condition for such a prolonged period they also interbred (within the existing parent groups) thereby creating additional "albino" offspring from "albino" mothers and fathers who were then and still are direct descendents of African mothers and fathers.
A mutation results in a change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type. There is blonde hair among the black Australian aborigines. That is an example of a mutation. Albinism is a good example of a mutation. Other examples of mutations are blondism or whiteness among monkeys, apes, and chimpanzees.
Wow Bravo DaisyDooks!!
Not too many people can accurately speak of the Caucus mountains, especially when refering to the origins of the Asca-Nazi (sp.) Jews. They did come from caves crawling on all 4's. Here's a book to check out "The Egyptian Origins of the Jewish People" by Gary Greenberg. You know his own people (jewish) tried to stop him from publishing this book.
Also, I'm still in shock that people continue to quote the bible as though its words are truly bond. Has anyone researched who wrote the book??? (3 jewish men FYI) Doesn't every book contain info on the author, well how come the Bible doesn't? Does anyone know who King James really was, since folks are reading his version of the Bible. He was an open ***! Would you listen to Clay Aiken's advice on how to live rightiously, Hell NO! I think we're all on one accord about teachings and natural resources being pillaged from Egypt but why hasn't anyone gone further to research religion? If the European man introduced/forced religion upon us, WHY are we still practicing it????
@Zarita
Oh, you know, a celebrated legacy. Everyone likes to have prominent people to claim or boast about. Cleopatra is a famous historical figure. She was royalty and the stuff of Shakespearean and Hollywood folklore. Why are you so hung up on the gods she worshiped and the men she slept with, anyway? You'd be hard pressed to find any "hero" without vices or flaws, and I fail to see how Miss Cleo was any less fascinating simply because she wasn't Christian. Do you feel the same about other promiscuous "pagan" monarchs and conquerors, or just this one because she was female?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"It amazes me how ignorant dumbasses can't handle real talk."
@mizzfyt
are you referring to yourself or others? (LOL)
How does is it that we are aruging over the race of this woman....but since we are airing out dirty laundry here...why has NO ONE mention the fact that ALL GREEK men had well KEPT coubines? Now with that SAID.... Cleo's GREEK great-grand father was the first to take a coubine as a WIFE (remember they ruled in Egypt for over 300+ years)... and with being in Egypt there were BEAUTIFUL black (or as some would perfer) women of color there to chose from...
SO now with that in mind...how are we to say that his blood line was not introduce to AFRICAN/black/NON-GREEK blood... you can argue here race all day long but facts are facts... there was some color introduced into the bloodline... why do you think Cleopatra II fled the kingdom? her husband/brother took a woman not of their family and gave her a FAMILY name... (who would this be... none other than the coubine people)... incest was common in Greek marriages... so with the possiblity of her children not being recogonized as heirs...she returned to fight for her man....now in the meantime Husband HAS in fact had CHILDREN that are NOTED in history people...
Reading is fundamental.... Knowledge is power...
I know the knowledge that is up here!!!
Also, the white boy troll is making my day..I am luaghing at this FOOL
History lesson
@LittleMissPerfect You are so not like your screenname. If you were, you would realize that THE MODERN EGYPTIANS ARE NOT THE ANCIENT ONES. The Arabs that you see today in Egypt are the descendants of the Arah Jihadists who conquered north Africa in the 6th century. These same Arabs are trying to make Islam the dominant fiath to this day in Sudan and Ethiopia...hence Darfur and the fights with Ethiopia.
Before the 6th century, the Arabs were nomadic traders at the Southern part of Saudia Arabia. This is what their Muslim hisotry refers to as their idoltry days.
Bottom line, ALL LIFE started in Africa and the WORLDS FIRST CIVILIZATION was BLACK
and to the white boy troll, I would gladly be genetically closer to an ape than you, the ape being the highest of the anmial primates.
Considering white folk used to hand black men form trees, cut up their flesh (possible ATE IT) and give the bones out as gifts? Call me Curious George any day sheep lover!!1
BTW
National Geographic in February 2008 wrote an article about how White racism played a role in the telling of African history. Many valueable Black artifacts were destoryed by white scientists who did not want the Hamatic Myth broken (Genesis 9 that becuase of Ham Blacks were cursed. This is NOT JUSTIFED in the Bible but made up).
I am gratified that modern *** on ancient Egypt feature Black actors and actresses.
@SCREENSIREN
I'm not going to add to the diviseness nature of some people. This will be my last reply to your posts. You can have the last reply.
I am in no way implying that people of mixed ancestry are superior to anyone. Obama being elected had A LOT to do with the fact he is both African and European. On election ***, we saw thousands of European-Americans cheering when Obama walked out on that stage as the President-Elect. As you recall, many African-Americans said Obama wasn't "black" enought during his campaign. Now he's BLACK? If you are implying that it is COMMON for African-Americans to attend ivy league colleges, you are simply WRONG. Michelle Obama herself wrote her Princeton college thesis about feeling isolated and her experience as an African-American in an ivy league college. It is NOT common for African-Americans to attend Harvard, because MOST African-Americans do not receive equality in education compared to European-Americans. As a person of African-European-Jewish-Sioux ancestry, I personally could not feel ethnocentric about any of the groups I came from.
Like it or not, Obama is African and European. Obama referred to himself as a "mutt" a few weeks back. If you want to call him the first "black" President of the U.S., that's your choice, but that's not entirely accurate.
I'm not going to debate Marxism with you, I understand it fairly well.
Peace.
@TTIIAA77<<<<
"...Also, I'm still in shock that people continue to quote the bible as though its words are truly bond. Has anyone researched who wrote the book??? (3 jewish men FYI) Doesn't every book contain info on the author, well how come the Bible doesn't? Does anyone know who King James really was, since folks are reading his version of the Bible. He was an open ***! Would you listen to Clay Aiken's advice on how to live rightiously, Hell NO! I think we're all on one accord about teachings and natural resources being pillaged from Egypt but why hasn't anyone gone further to research religion? If the European man introduced/forced religion upon us, WHY are we still practicing it???? -----------------------------
GOOD POINT. FOR YEARS I HAVE BEEN SUSPICIOUS OF THE BIBLE, IT'S ORIGINS AND AUTHORS. MOST ESPECIALLY THE KING JAMES VERSION WHICH WAS NOT EVEN AUTHORIZED UNTIL 1604 BY THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND AND PUBLISHED 7 YEARS LATER. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS BASED ON "GREEK" TEXTS AND HAS STAYED THAT WAY EVER SINCE.
BY NO MEANS AM I SAYING THAT I DONT BELIEVE IN A DEVINE CREATOR, BUT THE BRAIN-WASHING "ISH" (AS SO MANY OF YOU SAY) THAT HAS BEEN SLAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS FOR SO MANY YEARS IS WHAT I CALL, UMMM, SHALL WE SAY, *** ***?
@MALLETDIVA02<<<
GIRL, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! SO MANY SO-CALLED ARCHAELOGISTS AND SCIENTISTS HAVE INDEED "DE-AFRICANIZED" MANY ARTIFACTS TO HIDE THE FACT THAT "BLACK" PEOPLE WITH "BLACK FEATURES" INDEED HOLD A GREAT LEGACY ON THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA, ESPECIALLY GREAT KINGDOMS LIKE EGYPT!
IT'S TRULLY PATHETIC ABOUT THE LIES THAT CONTINUE T BE TOLD...
I am gratified that modern *** on ancient Egypt feature Black actors and actresses. ==========================
As am I. In my heart I always knew Nefertiti and Cleopatra VII looked more like me and Gina Torres than Elizabeth Taylor or Sophia Loren but some how when networks like the History channel and the Discovery channel began using actors and actresses that were not pale with blond hair and blue eyes, it felt more "real."
Interesting comments. I do find some people losing their mind because Cleopatra's image is changing. Cleo believed in one god. I don't know about the sleeping around factor but anytime a man is in love with a black women she is automatically branded a ***-fiend. I suppose that is what makes Cleo even more black because of the horrible comments from those that aren't of African descent. It really hurts other women that black women can be beautiful in any shade. We have different shades and eye colours. That is what can't be firgured out. The point is G-d makes us and He determines who looks like what. No book written can state that no matter how they try. Don't take what anyone tells you what you look like, can do or learn because they don't know, only G-d knows. Believe you are bless and you will be a blessing no matter what. When I was in school I went to this Russian Jew's house to meet his family. We were friends. (not dating) His grandmother was so excited to meet me (she misunderstood the visit) and said to me 'now if he marries you we can get back to what we use to look like.' I told her my mum was a black Jew so I am half there. It was funny everyone laughed. We have to remember that Morocco was black. Arabs took it over. If you go to Morocco you will see that they are still there just not making it into the media's eyes. Changing someone's history is a sad and mean thing to do no matter what ***. I have to ask myself what is the reason for the constant changing of black history. Why do so much work on it? Adding things in the Bible that aren't there is weird and remains a bitter point in history to justify mistreating a whole race of people. The Jews and the blacks have this in common. We are probably one and the same that is why there has been a constant pressure to put a wedge in between us.
We also need to get off the features. Africans have so many different tribes with different features. They have lips and have no lips but can range from dark to light with no European in their tribe. Features are nothing that came with this country. Don't fall for that one either it will make you even more confused and divided.
@Tarita not even trying to be rude that not me at all however it's not up for debate Obama is the first BLACK President! Yes he referred to himself as a mutt but he also referred to himself as being black I have it recorded, during an interview on Bet they asked him if he was black enough of course he said he was. If you followed the election you would see that Obama clearly identifies himself as being a black man born to a white mother. Atually you yourself look black to me.
Thats all I wanted to say, I hope you have a blessed day now!
I am ashamed to say that I'm as entertained as I am saddened by some of the bold displays of ignorance surrounding a number of statements regarding this topic. America has refused for many years to acknowledge people of color and their place in american history - that's a fact. Early historians and artists have often depicted Jesus as a feminine, blonde-haired creature and the bible clearly describes him as just the opposite - just as the story of Cleopatra has always been a film that most could not help but portray as a white female w/dark hair. Its about time that someone step out and attempt to tell the truth the way it really is.
Tarita,
I dont recall many African-Americans saying Obama wasn't Black enough. I recall the White MEDIA saying that, but they never provided any evidence that many Blacks felt that way. Can you? Secondly,it is not common for Black Biracial people to attend Ivy Leagues either. They are not the majority of Blacks on these campuses. Have you read Obama's autobiography? He talks about his experience being at Harvard and growing up Black. The reality is that Obama being biracial had very little if anything to do with him being a success. There are plenty of mixed Blacks who have NOT accomplished close to what he has and Michelle, his wife is just as accomplished as him, even though both of her parents are Black. Honestly, most of the Black Ivy League grads I know (and I know quite a few) are African or West Indian. Obama also reffered to himself as an African-American/Black. If you read his books, he has made this very clear. In regards to class, I mentioned NOTHING of marxism. Marxism isn't the only school of thought that positions race as a class issue.
For those that are enjoying the wonderful information on this topic, I suggest you watch this movie called, Zeitgeist the movie on the internet. Just google it, is very informative and will explain some of the origins of modern day religion and how it all stems from an ancient egyptian philosophy, spirituality, and school of thought...Peace.
P.S. FOR THOSE INTERESTED, HERE IS A VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE PROVIDED BY PROFESSOR MANU AMPIM REGARDING THE DELIBERATE DESTRUCTION OF NEGROID FEATURES ON EGYPTIAN ARTIFACTS:
"The altering of Black (African) facial features and the lightening of the skin colors of painted reliefs inside the tombs are central aspects of the conspiracy to destroy the memory of classical African civilizations. The two main conspirator groups carrying out these acts are European and American research teams, and local government workers. Throughout Egypt and Nubia, the tomb images have suffered different levels of decay and destruction. In places such as Giza the tombs are closed as there is little left to see; in Tell Amarna the tomb carvings are in an advanced state of decay; in El Kab and Aswan many of the images have been systematically defaced; and in Beni Hassan only 4 of the 39 tombs are open because the rest are badly damaged. The only major location which has escaped serious tomb damage is Sakkara, but this may not remain true in the future because the conspirators’ work is not complete, until they have destroyed or defaced all the evidence of classical African civilizations.
Modern conspirators have thoroughly erased the facial characteristics of these Black images.
“EATING MUMMY”
In the tombs, not only have the faces of many wall images been altered or destroyed, but the crimes against African mummies are almost beyond description. There is a tradition dating back to at least 1000 A.D. in which Arabs and later Europeans engaged in the practice of “eating mummy.” This practice has been written about by a number of authors, and it was widespread in modern Egypt and Western Europe. It consisted of countless ancient African mummies being burned, ground up, and made into a kind of powder in order to be eaten. This incredible act of cannibalism was considered an effective medical practice and folk remedy. The belief became widely prevalent that cures could be obtained by eating ground-up preserved bodies. “Eating mummy” was considered effective in treating contusions, coughs, epilepsy, migraines, ulcers, cases of poison, and as a general panacea.
Mummies or fragments of mummies were taken from their tombs and sent to Cairo and Alexandria, where merchants sent the ground-up parts all over Western Europe. In the European Middle Ages and Renaissance mummy trafficking was widespread. Egyptian mummies were so sought after that the chaplain to Queen Catherine de Medici of France made a special trip to Egypt in 1549 and, together with some physicians from Italy, broke into a number of tombs around Sakkara in a quest for mummies to use in various medicines. Catherine’s father-in-law, King Francis I of France, also carried ground-up mummy in a pouch around his waist at all times in case of an emergency.
The mummy madness was such that if a genuine ancient Egyptian mummy was not available, local Arabs would use the corpses of executed criminals or those who had died from disease. They used these modern substitutes to meet the high demand for mummy powder, despite the protest against this barbaric practice by some physicians, among them the French surgeon Ambroise Paré, who stated, “It causes great pain in their stomachs, gives them evil smelling breath and brings about serious vomiting.”
“Eating Mummy” had a long and respectable tradition as a medicinal remedy. This uncivilized European and Arab tradition of eating mummified human flesh was part of a flourishing trade and thus did not die out until the 19th century! It is impossible to calculate the many thousands of African mummies that ended up in the stomachs of Europeans and Arabs.
MODERN VIOLATIONS
The violation of African mummies has continued without hesitation in the form of local Arab citizens and tomb “guardians” who hide mummies in a secluded location until they can find an adventurist tourist who willing to pay and be taken to see a mummy or skeletal remains. I have seen extreme violations being carried out by Arabs at various tomb sites. In one of the Khokka tombs on the West Bank of Waset (Luxor), I witnessed two Arabs go in a tomb and take out the mummified parts of an 18th dynasty African official. They took him out of his burial place and savagely began assembling the various parts: the lower legs, the upper legs, the torso, the head, and finally they took out the mummy’s heart and asked me if I wanted to photograph it before they placed it inside of the chest area. All of this was done for “baksheesh” (tip) with no regard for the African ancestor.
In many other cases, human bones have been scattered throughout the tomb, as well as broken into small pieces and thrown about in the cemetery as the robbers are making off with the loot. The Arab villagers continue to loot ancient tombs and sell the African artifacts in the illicit underground antiquities market.
The destruction of African mummies has led to a gross distortion of the historical facts. For example, Dr. Wilfred Griggs and his colleagues of Brigham Young University (BYU) are in possession of an unparalleled thousands of human DNA samples, many of them from the ancient Egyptians. Dr. Griggs recently gave a presentation in San Jose, California in which he discussed the joint BYU and Rosicrucian Museum mummy project. Griggs stated that the DNA tests that were run on the Rosicrucian mummies indicated that of the 4 tested “not one of the four showed the African [genetic] marker. Now that doesn't’t surprise me,” he added, “because...there [were] many different races” in Egypt. Griggs never gave any context for his remarks, as he did not mention the time period when each of these mummies lived. Nor did he mention the geographical location where they lived within ancient Egypt, or where their burials were found. In fact, Griggs’ motives are extremely questionable, because there was no balance in his statements. For example, Griggs did not indicate if the DNA results showed either a “European” or “Asian” genetic marker. He only made sure to state that the “African” marker was not found."
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THE REST OF THE ARTICLE AND ACTUAL PICTURES CAN BE FOUND AT: http://www.manuampim.com/Part_II.htm
Tarita makes a good point. The title of Black may have been forced upon us by the Europeans as many suggests, but in an attempt to further isolate us as a people.. idiots like Jessie Jackson (our own kind) also labeled us years ago..by adopting upon us the term African American.
So the question is.. which do you prefer? If one is to subscribe that we are not black, nor are we African American, what should we call ourselves?
Personally, I reject the title given by Jessie Jackson, more than I do the term “black”. At least Black is a color. We call Caucasian people white? ..and White is a color.
One could say, I was technically not born in Africa, but was born in the United States of America. While I do embrace my African heritage, and roots, I have a problem with labels and stereotypes.
Many Europeans/ Caucasians were also born in parts of Africa. Africa is a large continent and consists of people of various ethnicities…that can be traced back in BC times. European contact goes back to around the early 15th century. So..let’s call them European African Americans?
At the end of the day, the pigment of one’s skin is a strong determining factor when accepting a title. Many racially mixed persons look more like one race than the other and subsequently can choose to label or depict their own class of race. I personally like the term “people of color”. But Jessie Jackson has labeled us ….so if blacks are to point fingers , at least be fair and point a few at Jessie Jackson. (use the middle one)
Tarita
Well I'm sorry as you put it,you're " not buying that theory", but this anthropological FACT is not just a theory of Dr. Van Sertima's but a widely held belief of the anthropological community at large. LMAO ! If you want to debate them all go right ahead. It is an already well established fact through fossil remains, that life began in Africa ;around the Congo region. Many anthropologist have explained the evolution of white people through Albinoism. Maybe a white anthropologist might have been more convincing to you. Btw many African Albinos to this day are born with Blue eyes or light colored eyes.Face facts lady,there is only ONE RACE and all other ethnicities are simply derivatives of us.
Interesting comments. I do find some people losing their mind because Cleopatra's image is changing. Cleo believed in one god. I don't know about the sleeping around factor but anytime a man is in love with a black women she is automatically branded a ***-fiend. I suppose that is what makes Cleo even more black because of the horrible comments from those that aren't of African descent. It really hurts other women that black women can be beautiful in any shade. We have different shades and eye colours. That is what can't be firgured out. The point is G-d makes us and He determines who looks like what. No book written can state that no matter how they try. Don't take what anyone tells you what you look like, can do or learn because they don't know, only G-d knows. Believe you are bless and you will be a blessing no matter what. When I was in school I went to this Russian Jew's house to meet his family. We were friends. (not dating) His grandmother was so excited to meet me (she misunderstood the visit) and said to me 'now if he marries you we can get back to what we use to look like.' I told her my mum was a black Jew so I am half there. It was funny everyone laughed. We have to remember that Morocco was black. Arabs took it over. If you go to Morocco you will see that they are still there just not making it into the media's eyes. Changing someone's history is a sad and mean thing to do no matter what ***. I have to ask myself what is the reason for the constant changing of black history. Why do so much work on it? Adding things in the Bible that aren't there is weird and remains a bitter point in history to justify mistreating a whole race of people. The Jews and the blacks have this in common. We are probably one and the same that is why there has been a constant pressure to put a wedge in between us.
@DAISYDOOKS<<<
"One thing I have been trying to make AAs aware of is that AFRICANS and EUROPEANS are extremely alike when it comes to "racism." It's just that the Europeans got to the GUN first. But if Africans had got the gun first---we would have Enslaved Europe and you'd all be wearing Afros.
Africans are VERY serious about "blood." ---------------------------
YES, AFRICANS ARE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT BLOOD AS THEY SHOULD BE. SO MUCH HAS BEEN STOLEN FROM US IN REGARDS TO CULTURE, HISTORY AND A SENSE OF HERITAGE THAT I DONT BLAME AFRICANS FOR WANTING TO "HOLD ON" TO WHAT CULTURE THEY HAVE LEFT.
THAT SAID, YES, REVERSE RACISM IS WRONG BY ANY STRETCH...BUT I FEEL MOST OF THE COMMENTS HERE ARE DISPLAYS OF FRUSTRATION BY OUR PEOPLE FROM BEING HELD FROM AND DENIED THE RICH, INTROSPECTIVE INFORMATION REGARDING OUR OWN FOR SO LONG. MOST OF US ARE NOT "RACISTS", WE'RE SIMPLY SEARCHING... AND NO, NEITHER ME, MY MOM, MY GRANDMOTHER, MY DAD OR ANY OF MY GREAT GRAND PARENTS AND SO FORTH HAVE HAD ANY DILLUSIONS OF GRANDEUR THAT WOULD EVEN FATHOM "ENSLAVING" EVERY OTHER RACE ON THE PLANET OR TRYING TO FORCE THEM TRY TO LOOK AFRICAN (WHITES & ASIANS WEARING AFROS? LOL).
HISTORICAL TRUTH AND MUTUAL RESPECT IS WHAT MOST OF US WANT. NOTHING ELSE.
@ Kishakut I watched that movie a while back and it is very informative. It added to information I had already come into knowledge of by reading books, such as Stolen Legacy.
I generally try not to step on people's faith but when there is so much knowledge and so many facts yet you insist ignoring them, I have to call you ignorant.
All of these questions surfaced for me in high school. I couldn't get pass the fact that Christianity would not have been my religion if I have lived in Akebulan. Christianity was forced on our people in an attempt to keep us in bondage. How can the same God who says it is okay for you to beat me, put me in shackles and chains and force me into servitude turn around and claim to love me. None of it made sense to me and I questioned it all.
Well what should we be called bc no disrespect but we are not African Americans I've never even been to Africa though I would love to, however it makes sense to be called African American when I'm not from there my mother's not her mother's not I could go on for a long time. Though I know our Ancestors are African I guess a better term would be African descent American.
@ CURRYDIVA:
What do you mean I look "black?" I look exactly what I am, I don't look African, I don't look European, and I don't look Native American-I look like a person of MIXED ANCESTRY. YOU nor anyone else gets to decide what I am nor any other person of mixed ancestry. What you meant to say is I look PART AFRICAN, and I agree PART AFRICAN, I embraced all of my ancestry, not just PART of it. You won't say part African because some people like you like to place people like me in ONE category. I'm not going to speculate why people like you think like this, but YOU don't get to make that decision. You are an individual. You are entitled to say what you want. But you DON'T get to decide my ancestry, my parents made that decsion. I'm sorry that some Europeans have caused so much destruction in the lives of African-Americans that some African-Americans hate to ACCEPT the fact that people that are mixed with both African and European are not "BLACK" or solely African.
On record, Obama is of late a "mutt" by his OWN admission.
I'm BLESSED to be of mixed ancestry.
Tarita
Your signature for one is foolish.I think anyone that refers to them self as an "other" is in fact mentally worthless. Trust me, all of these confused, " I don't wanna be called African American" MOFOs, would be the first to tell you their mixed with Irish,French,Native American or some other *** but run like track stars away from their African roots. Well *** EM and good riddance ! Obama has clearly stated for the record, he considers himself to be AFRICAN AMERICAN because that's what he was TREATED AS ! LOL. He's basically saying F whitey right there, at first you didn't want me and now you do...F that...I'M AFRICAN AMERICAN. So Tarita you may be confused but Obama isn't.
@ I_WILL_LEARN_YOU
And the world was though of as flat, wan't it?
I do not believe that a group of Africans left Africa, went to a cold climate, lived in caves, which changed their skin shade, eye color, hair color and texture, and then came back to Africa looking like Europeans, to enslave their own people in order to dominate the world. No I'm not buying that. And I'm entitled to my own opinion. But thanks for the info!
you know seraphim, let me explain to you the passion behind my statement. prchic was moved by some form of ignorance to state that not only was Cleopatra Greek, but that us "Black girls *** get excited, because she wasn't a sista". This tells me 2 things. 1. she has fed into the hype that Whites have taught her which is that she is "better" than Blacks. 2. She doesn't know who she is. The last time I checked, Latinos are the MUTTS of the Human Race, who are proven to have African roots. Now take my comment any way you like but for far too long have we been denied the accomplishments of Africans. For far too long Asian, Hispanic, indian (etc.) people, have been allowed to look down on Blacks. UNDERSTAND: America was built on the backs of Black people. Without us this country would be a dust bowl of nothing but rednecks mating with their cousins.
@daisydooks: You've posted some great information. I like when someone has something intelligent to contribute. As for Malcolm X, he was such an angry man I still can't comprehend what his status is in history. I don't find too much American history with him.
@Jahlove: I was talking about Egyptians not considering themselves black in the sense where Black Americans consider them black. The one's I've met act like they're a country unto themselves, like an island. I don't know what historical background has caused them to act like that but that's the way it is.
Also, the State Dept. labels immigrants when they come here. People from South America are labled from what region they come from. Some white, some black and others Hispanic. I've seen someone labeled white who looks very Hispanic. Same thing in Texas. A Mexican is labeled white or Hispanic based upon where they came from and/or lineage. Isn't that crazy?!!!!
Back in the 80s an Egyptian migrated here and sued the State Dept. because they were trying to force him to check the "white" box. He said he wasn't "white."
@curvydiva: I agree. When Jesse Jackson DECIDED it was time for black people to have an official name, he was wrong. We are not African American. An African American is an African who migrated here from their country as an immigrant or refugee and became a U.S citizen.
I was reading where in the 50s blacks had to sit in a Baptist church based on skin color. Light skins sat on one side while darker skins on the other. If both were married, they sat on opposite sides of the church!!!!
Race wouldn't be such an emotional topic for some to discuss if first and foremost many black people stopped talking about skin color and hair texture. Be happy you have hair and smooth skin.
There are racial issues in every country on this planet from the Japanese & Koreans; Iraqis & Kurds; Germans & Turks; White & Blacks; White & Hispanic; White & Asian; Blacks & skin color, etc... Someone always wants to be superior.
I'm very comfortable with being called black. I prefer it to African American. I agree black is not a nationality, it is an identity, a defining descriptor for all people whose ancestry may have originated on the continent of Africa or not, who has black or brown skin, a non-white. It is not a term used exclusively by americans, but also middle easterners, south americans, aborigonees, and many other dark skinned people. Blacks in america are not the largest population of blacks in the world, yet we seem to think we are the only ones, we are actually the smallest population of blacks, south american blacks out number us 4 to 1.
The term African-American excludes non-American Blacks. And though American Blacks have a lot in common because of our history in America, we aren’t the only people of the diaspora who were oppressed, enslaved, or are the descendants of those who were. We have a lot in common with Black people all over the globe. Our issues are not always uniquely American.
Just my opinion and a little blurb I borrowed from the angry black woman dot com.!!
@ MizzFyt
Prchic wasn't wrong in saying that Cleopatra was a Greek ruler. She was a Ptolemy, which would have made her Hellenistic or of Greek lineage. There's more evidence pointing to the likelihood of Cleopatra VII not being black than there is to suggest that she was black. Yes, there is a possibility that she was mixed race/ perhaps black, but there's no concrete evidence to verify it, only speculation. Just because she ruled Egypt doesn't automatically make her black. Does your being what I assume is American make you white? Greeks ruled more than their city states after Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire. Descendents of Alexander III (Alex the Great) and his generals (like Ptolemy) ruled what was the known world. Ptolemy's dynasty ruled Egypt. Cleopatra's father was Ptolemy XII. Maybe you're so bent on grasping at straws and claiming Cleopatra for the black race, that you're not willing to entertain the possibility that she wasn't black? ***, it's like someone just told you there was no Santa Clause.
If you studied your history you would know that Cleopatra was of Greek ancestry. Now we all know the proximity of Greece to Egypt so she was probably of darker skin complexion but she was not a true Egyptian. If you look at all of the rulers and the periods she was from the Ptolmey period and they were Greek.
I am aware that history is often taken away from our people; however in this case Cleopatra was Greek. If you talk to Egyptians they acknowledge her as a former ruler but not as an Egyptian.
@ ClassicBlackness The term African-American excludes non-American Blacks. And though American Blacks have a lot in common because of our history in America, we aren’t the only people of the diaspora who were oppressed, enslaved, or are the descendants of those who were. We have a lot in common with Black people all over the globe. Our issues are not always uniquely American. That is why I prefer the tem ‘Asiatic.” It describes us all, not just “Black” people here in America, but also those in Africa, Australia, and South America . . . etc.
@ THE_WAY: LOL Because you think I'm a fraud and I use my own picture as my avatar and you are using some type of image that does not disclose who you are, now to be exact you are hiding behind a mask, but a lot of ppl on this board "***" images to use instead of their actual picture, but that's okay, to each their own...As far as me being confused, if you are African why are you using that avatar? I mean it isn't representative of Africans in terms of the shading. Anyway, I find it ironic that you call anyone a "negro" it's not the true name of people of African ancestry. Secondly, say what what you want, but I'm a person of mixed ancestry, and I have compassion for all groups of people. Seriously, stop hating.
@ I_WANT_TO_LEARN_YOU:
I see you've resorted to name calling. I suppose you don't want to be obvious that you have resentment towards people of mixed ancestry as well, so you call them "She or He" like no one knows what they are...hatred oppesses people, are you trying to become like opressors?
You both are 2 of over 300 posts on this issue, which tells me that you both are having a problem with my posts, maybe neither of you read all of my posts or have, but chill, I haven't disrespected anyone here.
Find some happiness!
The idea that she is "black" or even "mixed" arab / native egyptian / white / etc. comes from ethno-centric revisionist history.
The Hellinistic Pharoahs WERE all white, because Egypt was conquered and taken over by Alexander the Great. Cleopatra was descended from one of his generals that took over Egypt (Ptolemy). Many Greeks migrated to and colonized Egypt.
Her subjects were many and varied as far as ethnicities, she was not.
Now, pre-Hellenistic Egyptian rulers were not "white", they were "Egyptian" (excluding, of course, a period of Persian domination) which was neither "black" or "white" as we know them today. In fact, ancient Egyptians were probably closer to a mix of asians, whites and blacks, but thats another topic entirely.
A quick note to put this in perspective, this is from wikipedia:
"Even though she still bore the ancient Egyptian title Pharaoh, one should bear in mind that her society's language was Greek and its culture was Hellenistic, and that when Cleopatra was born, the Great Pyramid was already at least 2,500 years old, if not older."
Cleopatra is to King Tut as I am to an American Indian living around 8th century A.D.
Really, one has got to ask themselves, what kind of "historical pride" can modern blacks feel from pretending that an in-bred white girl, who happened to rule Egypt because one of her ancestors conquered it, was black? If one wants to look for a source of "black pride" in the ancient world, why not the Kingdom of Kush?
Edit: An afterthought, concerning art of the time. There is very little surviving art of Cleopatra (some coins or sculptures, perhaps?) None of which indicates color as far as I know. Furthermore, if there are depictions that don't show her as "any different" from others in the depictions, that is because, her entire royal court were GREEK!
If she was black, Roman records (which were extensive) certainly would have indicated that. We know that Caesar was balding, but we don't know Cleopatra (his lover at one time) was black? Absurd.
@ TIFF2FRESH Thanks! Obama's mother was Irish, and apparently German, and Cherokee too.
I can't believe people are speaking of Obama as if his mother didn't exist, and that his father was his only parent. If Obama's grandparents felt the same way some people here feel about people of mixed ancestry, Obama wouldn't even have made it to Senator of Illinois, he probably would have reamined in Indonesia.
@CURRYDIVA:
Not upset, and you certainly can't speak on the behalf of the world's entire population. I don't think anyone has been confused as to whether or not you are of African descent. That has not been my experience. But I will speak on behalf of many people of mixed race ancestry when I say, I am not "WHITE" and I am not "BLACK." Again if you want to be accurate, stop calling Obama a "black" President.
People born of mixed ancestry are NOT decreasing they are increasing. Get over it already.
